tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post4226270038660800643..comments2023-11-05T07:13:31.277-05:00Comments on WHAT ARE MEN THINKING?: Economic Inequities?Chuck and Garlandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18277194909409065185noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-38746987372525259972008-11-29T20:23:00.000-05:002008-11-29T20:23:00.000-05:00Elizabeth, no offense was taken. I liked the pass...Elizabeth, no offense was taken. I liked the passion in your response and enjoyed reading it. I also can totally understand why some people may view my husband as a bum. I wasn't criticizing anyone who characterized him as such, but I didn't want my post to give the impression that I'm married to a bum.<BR/><BR/>We're going to try to work things out and see what happens. We've invested a lot of time and love into this relationship, so I'm not willing to throw in the towel without giving him a chance. However, I strongly believe that you have to always love God and yourself first and not stay together just for the kids' sake. I think things will work out in the end, but only time will truly tell.<BR/><BR/>Again, thanks to everyone for the advice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-21734441780626949352008-11-29T08:26:00.000-05:002008-11-29T08:26:00.000-05:00To the lady who wrote the letter..I apologize if a...To the lady who wrote the letter..<BR/><BR/>I apologize if any of my comments offended you - it is easier to be an "armchair critic" as my Mother would say than to be the one going through a difficult situation involving tough choices. (I know I made some strong statements about your husband, but I can only add that in blogosphere hopefully we can be as honest or direct as the issue warrants.)<BR/>Ultimately none of us here knows the full story except you and your husband and though we have voiced our "heated" opinions, the final decisions lie with you and him.<BR/>I hope for yours and the kids' sake you will all arrive at a conclusion which benefits you all.<BR/>Good luck and God bless.<BR/><BR/>EAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-7123705596111310572008-11-28T22:47:00.000-05:002008-11-28T22:47:00.000-05:00WOW!!I didn't know my question to you guys would s...WOW!!<BR/><BR/>I didn't know my question to you guys would set off this firestorm.<BR/><BR/>I just wanted to write in to answer some of the questions and correct some of the assumptions that have been made. To Chuck, I have talked to my husband repeatedly about this topic. That's why I said I haven't talked to him in awhile to avoid an argument. Every time we've had this discussion in the past, it always led to an argument, so I've been trying to keep the peace. Also, I feel the need to correct you about me wanting to have it both ways--be a feminist but have my husband be the provider. Though I acknowledge having a little bit of the old stereotype of a man shouldering his fair share of the weight, I think you're being unfair to characterize me as someone who is looking for a provider. If I were looking for a provider, I wouldn't have paid more of the bills for the last ten years without complaint; I would've dumped my husband once he could no longer comfortably shoulder his half. If I were looking for a provider, I would've been home with the kids the whole time being a housewife. If I were looking for a provider, I would have been complaining all along about my husband's job. I only started complaining this year when my economic circumstances changed, and I needed him to bring more money to the table. One more point, Chuck, yes, I did say that I sometimes think my husband is being "less than a man" by continuing to allow me to pay more of the bills, but I have NEVER said that to him, either through words or deeds, because I don't want to hurt his feelings or make him feel like less than a man, so I've kept those thoughts deeply buried. Chuck, I also acknowledge my husband's contribution to my success. While I've been traveling for work and having to sometimes work late, his job that I'm complaining about has allowed him to pick up my slack with the kids. I don't take my husband's contribution lightly, but I'm also not a fool and realize that my husband has benefitted from the situation as well. He's benefitted by being allowed to continue in a job the he loves without having to worry about making more money, because I was making more money. So, let's be clear here, BOTH of us benefitted from the situation. However, as a few of the commenters said, times change. Our kids are older now, and I've recently switched jobs so that I don't have to travel and can spend more time with them.<BR/><BR/>To those who think my husband is a bum, he isn't. He works hard and is a wonderful father and good husband, which is why I love him. Trust me, if you all knew me, you'd know I wouldn't stay with a bum. In our entire marriage, we've gotten along pretty well and not had any major issues. In this situation, I happen to be way more educated than my husband and work in the corporate world, which is why I make a lot more than him. My husband actually makes a great salary compared to the average American worker, but it's just not enough to pay half of everything without hurting him financially.<BR/><BR/>Garland, I like some of your advice and, Chuck (despite disagreeing with your assessment of my character as sending mixed signals), I like some of yours. I do believe I need to sit down in a calm manner to talk to my husband about the seriousness of him stepping up financially. However, I've already come to a decision about how to handle this matter.<BR/><BR/>I realize that I can't keep paying more than half of everything as long as my medical debt is hanging over my head. Therefore, if my husband wants to continue in his current position, that's fine. But, he'll be continuing in that position in a poorer state than before. If he won't seek better-paying employment, then I'm just going to reduce the amound I contribute and let the chips fall where they may. If he truly loves me, he'll step up to the plate and handle his business. If not, well, we'll end up another divorce statistic and have to share parental responsibility.<BR/><BR/>I'm hoping and praying that my husband will step up to the plate. But, my first duty is to look out for myself and my children, so if he doesn't, I'll just have to cross that bridge when I get to it.<BR/><BR/>Thanks to everyone for their advice. Even you, Chuck :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-62382272218005989822008-11-28T21:55:00.000-05:002008-11-28T21:55:00.000-05:00I'm sorry, Chuck, but I have to agree with Garland...I'm sorry, Chuck, but I have to agree with Garland on this one. I don't think the writer is sending mixed signals. She acknowledges that there are perks to her husband's job, but she seems to be saying that right now, she needs him to pull up to the big boys' table and carry his FULL half of the financial pie. My question is why doesn't her husband attempt to find another job that will give him some or all of his current perks but also bring in more money. I know it may be hard or impossible to find a job that matches his current situation, but hell, how many of us can truly say we have the financial luxury of sticking with a job just because we like it and not take pay into consideration.<BR/><BR/>Unlike her mother, it doesn't sound like her husband is a bum (though he could be). One thing I will agree with Chuck on is that she needs to talk to him once more. Don't sugar coat anything and don't beat around the bush. Just tell him, "I have $20,000 in medical bills and can no longer afford to subsidize your portion of the bills. So, you have two choices here. Find another or second job, or we have to start cutting out household luxuries." (I do like that advice Garland). She may even want to give him two or three months to take action. After that, if he continues down the same path, then it's time to force his hand and follow Garland's advice or just drop the amount she contributes. If he gets shitty and won't get off his ass to help out, then it's time to consider whether you truly have someone who there's "for better or worse" or just when things are better for him.<BR/><BR/>Since you have kids, I'm not advocating divorce, but I'm not advocating letting your husband continue sitting on his ass and not paying half of the bills.<BR/><BR/>One final comment to Chuck, what's up with the anger I sense in your response to Elizabeth? You came off a little bit like a member of the "Women Hater's Club." I don't agree with Elizabeth's comment about you turning it around to be the woman's fault all the time, because I generally like your advice. But here, you missed the mark. Understanding that there are always two sides to every story, and we're only getting one side here, if what the writer says is true, she's gone above and beyond the call of duty to help her man out. Most women (and I hate to say it, my sisters, but especially a lot of black women) would've kicked their husbands ass to the curb a long time ago if he wasn't on the same economic level as her. The writer, if her version is true, has financially supported her husband for a decade. Has her husband's job benefited her in allowing her to move up the ladder while he had the flexibility to take care of the kids, absolutely. But, as a reader stated earlier, times change. The writer has acknowledged her husband's contribution in that manner, and seems to feel somewhat remorseful and selfish for even complaining about his lack of earning potential since there was an indirect benefit to her. But, homeboy has to "man up" as Garland said and step up to the plate now that his wife needs him to pull his half.<BR/><BR/>Good luck to the writer. I hope you and your husband can work it out, for your kids sake if nothing else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-80799600084852434372008-11-28T10:50:00.000-05:002008-11-28T10:50:00.000-05:00Hey Elizabeth!You can send your certified money or...Hey Elizabeth!<BR/><BR/>You can send your certified money order to.... LOLOLOL... Hope all had a Happy thanksgiving.TJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01440182520469860355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-16032926793082224362008-11-26T14:06:00.000-05:002008-11-26T14:06:00.000-05:00I'll bet my last dollar that TJ is male. I agree w...I'll bet my last dollar that TJ is male. <BR/>I agree we all bring our "issues to the table" when listening to other peoples' problems. But those issues" are not neccessarily wrong or bad. This is not about being bitter or man-hating, it's about fairness!! I have been married for 8 years so I understand and accept the compromises and sacrifices involved in maintaining a stable, equal and respectful partnership. There are times when I have to bring in more, others, my husband has to. We KNOW and ACCEPT this. Neither of us has to be persuaded, cajoled or blackmailed into doing what is right for us BOTH at any given time. It's a no-brainer. If ny husband knows I am going through a lean time financially he takes up the reins and vice versa. I thought it was unfair and way off the mark to call the lady resentful of his lack of a fair contribution to the partnership. What the heck is she, Mother Teresa? This is why I took issue with your points Chuck. It seemed like, no matter the situation you just had to figure out a way to reflect some of the blame on her. And as far as I could see, she did not deserve that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-8955690619022961792008-11-26T13:44:00.000-05:002008-11-26T13:44:00.000-05:00Chuck you said "The writer herself goes back and f...Chuck you said "The writer herself goes back and forth: he's paying his share of the bills..."<BR/><BR/>However in her post she states "but it's never enough to allow him to pay half of all of the household bills without being flat broke afterwards." He is not paying his full share of the bills "I don't want it to come down to me insisting that my husband pick up his full share of the bills and just decreasing the amount I contribute."<BR/><BR/>In short she is picking up the short fall because he does not pay his full share of the bills. She wisely wants re-allocate the money she is kicking in for him so he 'does not walk around 'flat broke'with empty pockets' to reduce her medical bills, which are undoubtedly carrying a high rate of interest which increases the debt the longer it lingers. The longer she takes to pay the more she ends up paying. In other words he will still be doing less than his share but she will be paying more to her bills which will enable her to get out from under. The stress of having that lingering bill is not helping her health or peace of mind. Health, and a sense of well being in the big picture is more about a persons state of mind. If the partnership matters to him - and he does not want to walk around 'flat broke' after he handles his business he needs to step up! Keep the job he loves but get another job so his partner can get a break. It's about choices - no one rides for free forever it is time he paid up and if need be go above and beyond. Grow up! Adulthood is about being responsible and making hard choices. Only leeches or parasites do only what is easiest and best for themselves regardless of the harm to others. Think of the message it is sending the kids that it is okay to let others take care of you just so long as you are 'happy'. Yes his 'feelings' matter but people matter more or should and he is being selfish, irresponsible and immature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-86636295149241966492008-11-26T13:18:00.000-05:002008-11-26T13:18:00.000-05:00G you are right on the money on this one. C - movi...G you are right on the money on this one. C - moving right along - balanced points but asking her to do more and 'help' him is no real solution. The time for all talk is gone. Talk without actions behind it does no good. He may love her all he wants and be emotionally supportive but the time to act is now!<BR/><BR/>She is in a partnership which is why she was willing to pay more and do more to keep things going for the good of all for 10 years. She believed that it was all good and that when it was needed he would Man Up, because they were partners and what was good for one was good for the other. That is what team work is about. It is not about a 50/50 reciprocity - it is about doing what needs to be done to maintain a healthy balance. Roles shift, needs change, it's all part of a balancing act. She has been juggling it all and now the balance has shifted. GF is tired and has reached the point where enough is enough. She expects him to have her back and let her lay her burdens down. A partnership is where each can count on and alternately lean on the the other. He has had his day in the sun - so suck it up and make the hard call and take additional job or change jobs. It is about reciprocity! Clearly for her it is not about the money it's about her feeling that his comfort and happiness is more important to him than her. <BR/><BR/>GF needs to do what she needs for her own good. She controls the funds so make the call - clearly he is not going to take care of her so it falls on her to do that. Actions speak louder than words. She should pay the bills she needs to pay to give her the security and peace of mind she seeks. You can't give to others if you are depleted - that is why they say pay yourself first so you will have the resources needed when the need arises. The kids will not starve - she will not let them. G is right! Make it uncomfortable. He will not starve if he has to kick in his fair share and if he is a grown able bodied man and starves for lack of ambition then he deserves to starve.<BR/><BR/>She has taken his bigger picture into account and it still does not solve the immediate problem. GF is tired, and sick and tired of being tired, sick and getting no relief - being wife, mother and superwoman 24/7/365 for 10+ years. Decide what she needs to make things better, in specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, time bound terms. Armed with this information - sit down talk to hubby. State the problem as she sees it. Ask for his take on it. Hear him out. State her position i.e. I feel etc. I need etc. - how can we problem solve. If he is not willing to be a partner and step up, she needs to be prepared to take care of herself before she falls apart. She needs to act in her own best interest and he will have to adapt - clearly she is the leader in this situation. They will both be uncomfortable for a short while, but life is not all sunshine and happy dreams - without hard work. Solve the immediate solution before it crushes her and the marriage. Once the situation improves and she is back in a position of health and strength because her anger has been released and needs have been met - she can decide . Her anger will not go away if she allows this to continue it will grown and eventually boil over. <BR/><BR/>ClariceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-29113888934091685122008-11-26T12:07:00.000-05:002008-11-26T12:07:00.000-05:00What did I set off here? When have I made real pro...What did I set off here? When have I made real problems women's proms, Elizabeth? Please tell me when. Doing this blog, I feel I almost always take the women's side in these issues. But I also try to bring up the part that women sometimes play in making their lives more difficult (i.e., by spending four years obsessing over disintertested men).<BR/><BR/>Elizabeth, since you were "all poised to be pissed off" at our answers, I guess I should be glad I didn't disappoint you. When I wrote my answer, I thought I was being clear. But now, I think there are a couple more points I should address.<BR/><BR/>How you fall on this question, I think, depends on how you read it, and the personal issues you bring to it. The writer herself goes back and forth: he's paying his share of the bills, but he should do more, he's there for the kids, but he should bring more money to the table, and so on. It was my contention that these contradictions could lead to some confusion on the part of the husband.<BR/><BR/>Additionally, I think Garland's suggestion that she punish this guy by taking things away from him could prove counter-productive. If this is a man who goes to work every day and thinks, even mistakenly, that he is making a decent contribution, taking action like that without a conversation is liable to make matters worse. <BR/><BR/>I stand by my advice that she address these issues with her husband directly. Because his response should determine definitively whether he is a loser or not.Chuck and Garlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18277194909409065185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-51742766630457505332008-11-26T09:16:00.000-05:002008-11-26T09:16:00.000-05:00I read the advice. Then I read the above comment a...I read the advice. Then I read the above comment and read the advice again, because I thought I missed something, but I didn't. I just see it differently. <BR/>I think that Chuck and Garland brought out different things that are very important in this situation. The need of a man to do what he can when times get rough (Garland) and the need to be mindful of the big picture (Chuck). I think both are great advice, especially when the letter writer stated that her husband's job offers benefits like flexibility to have time with the kids.<BR/>The only things I would add-<BR/>Don't give up on trying to talk to him. Try harder to talk to him in a calm tone and let him know how this situation is affecting you. <BR/>Moms mean well, but this problem is between you and your husband. Address it with him and leave her out of it to the extent that you can.TJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01440182520469860355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17852423.post-60196230267223546612008-11-25T13:50:00.000-05:002008-11-25T13:50:00.000-05:00I was all poised to be pissed off at the G & C...I was all poised to be pissed off at the G & C's responses. Then I read G - and was impressed with his balanced, realistic take on the situation. Great I thought..that is until I read Chucks. Thanks a lot Chuck, once again you manage to turn real problems into the womans problems, in other words, it's somehow her fault. Sure BW are raised to be independent, successful and self-reliant, what the heck are they supposed to have been raised to be instead? Dependent and useless? Gold-diggers? You are confusing the issue, this woman has made it clear over and over that she is (and has been) prepared to meet her obligations, contribute to the partnership of marriage. She has never stated that her OH be a millionaire only that he contribute HIS fair share and not depend on her to carry the financial burden of the relationship. And sister has been so exemplary in actions and thoughts - she accepted his lack of ambition because she loved him and felt that in many other ways he more than made up for the inequalities. Now however things have CHANGED. Sister is going through a financial crisies, now is the time when action, grit and getting off your behind is called for, to show that he is a quality man who truly loves and wants to take care of his family, to show that all her years of allowing him to languish in a dead-end job he loved while she made most of the sacrifices was not in vain. Reciprocity, Chuck is all she wants. That and seeing her man step up and show he cares. And you dare to call her resentful, this honorable woman who has done so much for a possibly undeserving man. And what does he do in the midst of this crisis? Nada. He still expects her to continue to carry the cross! He is a child, worse - a craven user who unless he changes, will have betrayed her gravely. I totally agree with Garlands tough love aprproach in the first instance - take his comforts away. And if that does not lead to meaningful and sustained change, hard as it may be - kick his sorry ass to the curb. You are going through a difficult period and he sits back and does not give a shit, no way, no how. A quality man who loves you does not sit back while you suffer and sweat when he has it in his power to help and support you. It is not your fault you married what turned out to be (maybe ) a loser. We all go into marriage with hopes and dreams which may/may not be realised. Take heart sister, God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com