Keeping It Casual

QUESTION: Dear Chuck and Garland!

What a great website I just ran across! I had no idea something like this existed. I’ve only seen women hosting such pages.

OK, here’s the thing:

12 years ago, my piano class visits HIS piano class in another city. I don’t see any of these folks again – until one year ago: I meet HIM, the most gifted pianist of that class, at a summer party and HE REMEMBERS WHAT I PLAYED 12 YEARS AGO!! I had long forgotten it myself. We talk all night, we dance, I cuddle his arm, his beard, we walk home through the night and end up on my coach (no sex) where we talk until well into the next day.

Later on, we have an amazing 12 hours date and he asks me to spend the night with him. I say no, as I’ve already explained my moral standards to him (but he did get a kiss later!) He says it has been his best date ever.

He’s 31, I’m 33. I’ve never been in a serious relationship. He once had a girlfriend and moved in with her but got enough after 3 weeks… He’s told me he sees other girls occasionally, I’ve told him I’m not actively looking for someone. If we bump into each other, he’ll usually see to it that we end up in a good pizza place or something. But he seldom plans anything with me. When I occasionally make suggestions – either spontaneously or a few days ahead – he excuses himself (when I call) or does not respond (to texts, e-mails). But a few weeks ago he started to take some more initiative and we met a couple of times again.

He’s very attractive, intelligent and popular, yet admits freely to me that his confidence is up and down. That sex is (or at least was) important to him as self-affirmation. When I pay him a compliment, he seems to really take it to heart. At times, we’ve had these exceptionally close conversations. At other times, he seems to be lost in his own world. Every time I decide to forget about him forever, we’ll bump into each other again. When I think he must hate me because he’s ignored me for so long he’ll invite me for a gathering or something and be friendly and sweet towards me, stirring my feelings once again. He's the one to bring up topics like marriage, children, death at times when he feels comfortable.

About 4 weeks ago, I wrote him an e-mail, telling him that I care about him, value our friendship, admit a romantic note to it and wonder where it will take us, despite the potential major obstacle of me being a Christian and him being an atheist (we’ve discussed our different views in this respect very openly many times). I simply wanted to let him know where I stand, as we've had this thing going now for a year. (Yes, it would have been better to talk, but I’m so much better at stating myself clearly in writing; besides, we haven’t been in a private place for ages). He’s still not responded to this, but has to other casual topics we’re occasionally discussing on e-mail. Today: I happened to run into him and he stopped me, asking how I was, talking very nicely to me – then said bye.

So dear guys, forget about our differences in faith for now (WE have to sort that one out). But how can I even get him to talk? Is he just polite to me? Other plausible explanations? I want to understand him!! Sorry this got a little long.

Thanks in advance for a few thoughts on the man’s mind!

GARLAND: Thanks for thinking of us with your question and situation.  

Let me just jump right into the middle of your question first -  when you say, "[W]hen I think he must hate me because he’s ignored me for so long..." I just want you to know that it is rarely that deep with guys who haven't turly dated you or been physically intimate with you.   Talking about someone "hating" you because they've ignored you - in my opinion - is how a woman sees a situation but when you are seeing this in a guy, I think you may be way off the mark.  He's just not that into you at that moment and there is probably no hate ad no real deep emotions involved - he's just not giving your texts or calls any attention.  He probably just assumes that you'll be there in the following week or month.  I always hate to sound harsh, but Chuck and I try to be pretty straight and we don't want our advice to get lost in fluffy - politically correct commentary.  

Telling you that sex is "self affirming" to him made me smile.  I don't know if that is the coolest line or lamest line I've ever heard.  Probably the latter, but it tickled me.  

His assuming that you will be there in the coming weeks or months is not anything sinister or untrue on his part - you were still there when he called you back right?  This is where I have to let you know that this guy is all over the place.  He's either a turbulent emotional wreck waiting to go nuclear, or he's a Master Gamesman, dangling what seems to be a ton of frailties in front of you with the hopes that you'll either give in to him on a different level or you'll just stay with him, buying in to his drama.   Frankly, I don't know which it is.  His love-you, like-you, call-you, don't call you - approach seems like someone who may be emotionally unavailable to you [or anyone] and unwilling to change.  It just seems like deeper issues may reside in this chap and he may not be a stock you want to invest in. 

 If he isn't emotionally unstable, then he's just not really feeling you right now.  I hate to see guys spoonfeeding their time and attention to women. DON'T GET ME WRONG, some women do this to guys too, but as far as your question goes... I hate to see him doing this to you. You are really hanging on too tight to this guy,  If you're satifsfied with a mere text or a single call or a good deep-dish pepperoni slice once or twice a month from this guy, you are most likely short changing yourself if you are looking for a boyfriend or serious relationship.

I don't know what his issue is, but he's not giving you a lot of himself and he may not be as excited about you as you are with him.  That's not a crime, but you have to decide what you are worth and what you will and won't put up with.  There is NO RULE that says you have to answer his calls, read his texts or make time for him when he sees fit to grace you with his presence.   

Good luck with whatever you decide.  

CHUCK: This is clearly a case of two people who are in no way matched in their level of commitment. This guy runs hot and cold with you, first of all, because he can, and, second of all, he's most likely seeing someone else during the rest of his time.

Garland is 100% correct, when he dismisses your suggestion that this man must hate you. With guys like this one, feelings rarely run this deep. More likely, he just doesn't think too much about you at all. Otherwise, he wouldn't be able to be so inconsiderate of your feelings. If a guy hates a girl, though, he just will cut off all contact completely. So, at least you have that comfort.

But not much else. He seems to resist every effort that you have been making to move this relationship foreward even one inch. Maybe you were hesitant to discuss your differences of faith with him because of nervousness, but it seems as though you have more differences than just religion, which I think could at least be worked through.

You need to get to brass tacks with this man, and ask him if he sees any future between you at all. At least then, you can get things out in the open, and you don't need to wonder.

The Disappearing Window

QUESTION: This guy and I met through a mutual friend we both had. After several months we started talking every day whether it was via text or calling. He called me sometimes I called him. We became very close friends, and he started dating this girl and I started dating this guy around the same time, but me and him continued to talk regularly.

Eventually one day when we were talking he admitted to having more than friendly feelings for me, and I told him the same. However we decided it was best to just be friends, because we were both still in realtionships. A year passed both of us still seeing the other people and one night at a party we kissed, but it didn't go any further.

Anyways he and his girlfriend broke up and me and my boyfriend broke up just before them, and we have started to talk more about an "us", but it doesn't ever seem to go past that, and now our friendship is becoming more straining. We argue a lot more now, and don't talk as often anymore. So I was just wondering like what is going on?

CHUCK: Gee, I don't know. You tell me. If I were to speculate, I would say that the window of opportunity for the two of you to move from friends to lovers has passed. You both have come to some unspoken realization that the Next Step is not going to happen for you, and in the absence of sexual tension, all you have left is just tension.

How did this happen? In movies like When Harry Met Sally..., couples flit around each other for years, flirting and pining, until that romantic moment on New Year's Eve, when they profess their undying love for... Oh, forget it. When has life ever worked like that? Maybe, after months of experiencing obstacles to your getting together, you both are afraid to pull the trigger on dating each other. Maybe you think you know each other too well now.

My wife and I were in a similar situation as you. We were friends for a couple of years before we started dating. And actually, when we did start seeing each other, it was kind of a relief. We had had numerous conversations about numerous different topics at that point, and there was no period of being on "your best behavior" (i.e., fake) in the early days of our relationship. I think it was actually good, as there was no stress about when either of us would let the mask drop.

I'm not going to try to tell you that things could work out between the two of you, but you should probably try to find out for sure. It may be something that you look back on years from now, and wonder if it could have worked. So I'll ask you to talk to him seriously, try to put your recent disagreements behind you, and maybe clear the slate enough for the two of you to see if the chemistry is still there. It might not be. But one way or another, you should find out.

GARLAND: Thanks for your question. The window of opportunity may have passed for you all like Chuck said. However, your situation could be caused by one of several other things as well.

#1. Sometimes things look prettier in the store window than they do on your wrist. The two of you may have seen something desirable and highly attractive in each other when it was safe to do so. You were tied up with someone and he was tied up with someone so as long as you didn't act on these feelings it was safe, dare I say fun, to tease each other and speculate about a hot romance together. Now, the barriers are gone and you are both faced with the reality of having to go into the store and buy that watch you've been looking at for the last 12 months. You may be worried about buyer's remorse.

#2. You both may be a little leery about jumping into a serious relationship with someone who has basically been in a less than sincere relationship for the last year. Let's be real here, he's had feelings for you and you've had feelings for him and yet you've both stayed in your other 'relationships' for over a year. Maybe one or both of you are a little mistrustful of the others true emotional capabilities. Maybe you are worried that you may fall into a sham relationship with one another.

#3 [and last] You both may be Spotters and neither of you are the actual Shooter. What I mean is this - a successful sniper team has a shooter and a spotter, the spotter finds the target and makes certain assessments and the shooter actually uses that information to pull the trigger and take the target out. You both sound like Spotters - talking and making decisions and looking and thinking and yet neither of you is willing to take the shot and start a realtionship.

I think the time has come to either take the shot or walk away. If the target doesn't feel right, move on. If it does - TAKE THE SHOT.

The question now is, are you a spotter or a shooter?

Good luck-

Is you is, or is you ain't, My Baby?

Hi guys,

I’m not quite sure how to begin this, so I’ll just start. I met this guy about 7 months ago at a training for our current job. From the moment I saw him I knew instantly he was drawn to me, you know when you just get that feeling? At the time I was not, I couldn’t have cared less! But any time I would walk into the same room as him, his eyes automatically followed me, and if I caught him looking he would continue the gaze. Anyway, I’m not sure how but I became attracted to him, and one day while walking into work I bumped into him. We walked and ended up talking, which lead to us having lunch and dinner together. Soon after, each evening he would wait for me and walk me to my car. In my mind I thought to myself, “There is no way this man does not have feelings for me”. So one day, whilst having lunch with him I coolly brought up whether he had a girlfriend or not. Expecting a ‘no’ he answered (well, mumbled) that he did. Shocked as I was, I decided that I would not cross that line and remain friends with him. We grew closer and more comfortable with one another, and nothing really seemed to change.

The last morning I was working on my shift with him before I changed to nights, I decided to give him my number to keep in touch. As I got into my car and drove off, my phone rang and it was him making sure I had his number as well. I was very adamant that I would not be calling him (not only because I am not much of a phone person) but because I found it disrespectful to phone another woman’s man- especially with my impending feelings for him. I even told him that (my feelings for him not included). He got somewhat upset, but for months he was the one who would call me once or twice a week, resulting in our conversations lasting until 4am in the morning. Somehow I believed that with us not seeing each other as much, we would grow apart, but it has turned out to be the opposite.

At work if he comes in early to see me, he‘ll make a point of hugging me in front of everyone numerous times and will have his arm around my shoulder when we‘re walking. Any chance he gets to put his arms around me, he’ll take.

A couple of days after I gave him my number I texted him, and ever since then we text one another everyday. The most that he or myself will not hear from one another is 1 day, 2 maximum. If he thinks the slightest thing is wrong with me he assures me that he’s there, and will not stop until he knows that I am okay.

Ex. I forgot to text him back on day and was kind of cryptic on what was going on. The next day he texted me asking if I was alright and when I tried to find out how he was doing, he responded that as long as I was fine everything is good with him.

It is safe to say it has gotten to the point where he is very open and confides in me with things I’m sure not a lot of people know. If I am on instant messenger we talk for hours--the communication is non-stop. We even meet up occasionally outside of work and hang out for hours. If people mistake us for a couple, he does not get offended, instead we simply reply ‘we’re just friends’ and laugh it off because we’re so use to it. We flirt all the time, and our conversations usually come back down to relationships; our likes and dislikes in them, which usually result in our agreement of the same things. He attempts to skillfully ask me about things that I look for in I like in men and appears to really takes note of what I say, or he will answer in a way that says he is that type of guy.

For example, one day I told him he looked really good in blue, and every since then if we meet up outside of work he is wearing black (lol).

When it comes to his girlfriend, I have tried not to pry too much, but whenever I do ask he is more than willing to answer. Usually he is the one who brings her up, if we talk about something we dislike in relationships, such as the other person already having kids and the stress it brings. From what he’s said, she is already a mother of 3 children, none of which are his own. He has been with her for 4 months, and they were first friends before getting together and his fear is that is he leaves her, her baby father will come in and treat her poorly. He has mentioned that he is unsure of how long the relationship will last because he does not see himself with her in the long run and also, situations like people mistaking the children as his when they’re out and how he finds it somewhat embarrassing to correct them. I never sound angry when she is mentioned, instead I try to tell him to let things take their course but I don’t know if maybe I’m just screwing myself over by being nice about that.

My isue is, no matter how much he flirts and confides in me…he still has a girlfriend. If he really could not see the relationship lasting that long, he would have left her already, no? I always tell him to just let things flow, that if it’s meant to work out it will and if it isn’t, it will be a learning experience. He even went on to say that if it doesn’t work out he will never date another woman with children again. My friend thinks it’s all too clear that he does have feelings for me and that I should express my own to him, that possibly he is just intimidated by me (which may be the case, because he has seen me shoot other men down and he is considerably shy) but why should I do that? I am not the one with the baggage, I’m single. I feel that if he really was interested in me, he would have already ended the relationship.

Also, clearly things cannot be that bad between them if he is still with her. This only makes me want to stay way and ignore him, because the more I talk to him, or see ‘ you have received a text message from…’ only makes me want what I cannot have. I’m growing so impatient of all the wondering, and constant innuendoes between us, leaving me thinking it may just be me who is looking too much into things, and he really only sees me as a friend or he is trying to play with my head.

I’ve already heard that if a man has a girlfriend, just let him go he just wants you as his side-thing. But I know this man as well, and I know he would not intentionally hurt me. I am hoping to get a perspective from someone who does not know me and can be straight up!
Sorry about the length of this, I needed to get things off my chest!

Thank you.

GARLAND: Thanks for your question!

I would love to give you some warm wonderful reply. But we didn't start this blog to lie to folks.

Basically, you've caught big-time feelings for a dude that is too weak to toss the girlfriend to the curb. Seeing as though he's been majorly emotionally unfaithful to her with you, I don't see why he doesn't push her all of the way out the picture.

The whole White Knight nonsense about him not wanting to drop her because one of her Baby-Daddies coming back in and treating her bad is the biggest load of bullcrap I've heard in months. Either his lady is breaking him off something proper or she's kickin' him some financial assistance. If he is coming in early to work to hug on YOU, and he's texting and calling YOU like crazy and he's strolling around in public with YOU and he's confiding his deepest empotional secrets with YOU - why does he need her?

There is some straight BS somewhere in this equation and sadly - he's dishing it to YOU. Mark my words, his girlfriend has shown that she's fertile, so the man that you are feelin' right now is gonna' be the baby-daddy to her #4 child. Then I'm sure he'll dump her in a heartbeat, pop a ring on your finger, make YOU be the step-mama to the child he had with the woman he WOULDN'T DUMP FOR YOU and while you're at home with Junior, Daddy will be at work hugging on the next Cutie-on-Deck. Yeah, I know I sound cynical - but bullshit in high doses tends to make me that way.

He's using you because you are his emotional outlet. You're probably cute too, so that doesn't hurt his image either. A woman with three kids is a big emotional and time commitment, if he's as free as you make him out to be, something ain't right. Have you met this "girlfriend"? I'm almost scared that he DOESN'T have a girlfriend with all these kids - he may have another YOU in a nearby town and he uses the "girlfriend" line so that when she's fulfilling his other needs YOU won't bother him. OKAY - OKAY, I'm reaching there, maybe.

In a nutshell, you liked this dude from day one, that's why you slipped him your number. The whole - "I wouldn't dare disprespect another woman by calling her man" was a cute line, honestly. But, you are human, you liked something about him and wanted to keep in touch - it happens. But, this guy is BS'ing you. No guy in his right mind... IN HIS RIGHT MIND... is going to continue to date a woman with three kids and Baby Daddy issues THAT HE ADMITS doesn't seem to be going anywhere - while he has a nice, single lady with no kids and a lot in common that he is just BEING FRIENDS WITH. Make this dude an ultimatum!!! Either he drop the ex THIS WEEK or you walk and PLAYTIME is over. This whole "we're just friends" foolishness that you all have between you, is what grown folks call, "Serious Sexual Tension." If he is so scared to leave her, then you need to move on and stop enabling him to be emotionally unfaithful to his uh, "Girlfriend."

CHUCK: Well... Okay, Garland. And here I thought I was the cynical one. There's very little here for me to disagree with, though. Writer, you are deluding yourself that you are in a 100% rewarding relationship with this dude. And you are letting him be the only one who defines your relationship, why? Because it's cute? Because it keeps them talking at work? Because it's not as risky as being in a real romance with someone?

I agree that his story about staying with his girlfriend to "protect her" from going back to her abusive ex is some Grade-A prime bullshit. And my take is that he's probably staying with her for financial or sexual reasons. Because these are two things that he isn't getting from you right now. And he's not talking about leaving her, so these reasons are evidently pretty strong.

I'm not suggesting that he doesn't care for you. He's spending a lot of time with, and on you (and the texting... God, don't get me started). But you have given him all the power in this relationship by letting him define you as "just friends," when it's clear you want to be more. And you don't know how it tortures me to say that, because normally I refuse to think of things like who has the so-called "power" in a relationship.

Something that also needs to be addressed is your feeble rationalizations for, in effect, taking another woman's man away. People: If you know that it is wrong to have your emotional or sexual needs fulfilled by someone else's mate, DON'T DO IT. Plain and simple.

Finally, if you're happy to continue as this man's work girlfriend, continue to do so. There are worse things to be. But if you want a little more from your friend then what he's currently offering, ask for it. As I said in a response to a previous post, men can live in limbo-states for indefinite periods of time. Women cannot. The time to take the next step may be now.