Dad or Cad?

QUESTION: Hey guys! I need some help because I think I'm going crazy.

I met this guy, I'll call him 'Robert' about three months ago at my girlfrind's birthday party. It was a nice get together with about 30 people and he was talking to different people all night and so was I. But he didn't make any special attempts to talk to me and I didn't go looking for him either. I just noticed him because he was wearing a bright red shirt and he looked like Maxwell. So, a few days go by and my girlfriend calls me and tells me that Robert wanted to know my name and wanted to know what I was about.

She told him my name and told him he'd have to find out the rest on his own. She had his number and I gave him a call a week later becuase I wasn't pressed. We talked and his conversation was nice and he was funny and we went out on our first date a few days later. He's divorced and has a 6 year old daughter and lives in an apartment in a nice neighborhood. He seems like a great dad and he treats me good.

About a month ago he started talking about commitment and getting married to me and the two of us starting a family and all these great things that I think I wanted to hear. I just didn't want to hear them this soon. And I don't really know what's up between him and the ex. Him and her have joint custody of his daughter and I know they still do things as a family once or twice a month. They go to the movies or they go to the water park or miniture golf and I just don't know what to make of this. He says that him and his wife aren't trying to get back together and everything they do together is for their daughter, but I just don't feel good about it. I'm not used to divorced people being around each other and not having old feelings come back. I'm not happy with him talking marriage to me and still going to the movies with his ex and thier daughter.

He seems like a good man, but I don't know what to do. Can he honestly spend time with his ex-wife and still want a future with me? I am setting myself up to get hurt again?

Thanks for the Luv guys!

GARLAND: Thanks for the question.

I'm more concerned about "Robert" talking marriage and commitment after what? TWO MONTHS? (Three months minus one). Those are heavy issues and need to be given the most attention I think.

If he's already been married and been unsuccessful in that endeavour, then he needs to take his time and approach that subject carefully. If he has a little one, then he needs to be even more prudent and I'm just not feeling the two month sprint to the big big commitment talk. Be very careful on that road.

Okay - about your question. Can he hang with the ex and still be decent toward you? Sure, I guess. I can't say 100% for sure, because only he knows. But, I think trying to maintain a certain comfort level and level of normalcy for his daughter is reasonable. His daughter may have taken the divorce very badly like many kids do, and he and his wife want to help her through it. I think for them to be able to put their differences aside to take her to the movies or the park or the playground is a really great thing.

If you are worried that maybe old feelings will creep back in between them, which they very well could, then you should talk to him. I mean - the two were married and they share a common bond in their daughter, so you are NOT unreasonable to be concerned. I think you should take the time and express your concerns and see what he has to say. He might surprise you with a litany of reasons why he'll never love her again, or he might not. He might tell you that the reasons for their divorce weren't that bad, you'll never know until you talk to him. Keep in mind though, that you are looking out for YOUR HEART and that is always the best cause.

CHUCK: Garland's right. Robert's clock is a little out of whack in terms of what's an appropriate courtship time, but there's no need to panic. Not yet.

A lot of women spend months in the early stages of a relationship, wonder what their man is thinking of, turning over signs and clues like a crime scene technician. This man has laid out his intentions pretty early. Too early. But hopefully, he should understand your desire to take things a little slower, and respect them.

The issue with his ex-wife and daughter is one I don't consider that serious, either. At her age (six), it's probably still important for her to have the illusion that her family is still together, at least for a couple of hours. You wouldn't fault her that, would you?

However, if those family outings change from the movies or the waterpark, to a weekend at the Poconos, or a family cruise to the Bahamas, you might have a little more cause for alarm. Until that happens, just roll with it, though.

A Bad Man

Question: Hey there Chuck and Garland...Awesome blog and the posts are very insightful and full of good candid information. This is a long post, but please bear with me. I'm trying to give two sides not just mine.

My question is about my husband. I asked for a separation about three months ago after three years of dealing with his verbal abuse. We have 15yrs together and 3 children.

Every three months on the dot I dealt with criticism and his work stress that he took out on me. If he had a problem with his health or work, I was the "punching bag" he'd focus on something that irked him (the house not be clean, me not handling the children more firmly, not keeping my car clean (because he's paying the note mind you), and so on) He left out of the country for a year and I spent that whole year happily doing my thing. The kids and I did a great job functioning, although we missed him. He got back home and I kid you not, two months later, I endured a round of criticisms and attacks on my "flaws". I bawled like a baby. My self-esteem was shot.

Finally, he left on business for two months and on the phone he started telling me that I don't pay enough attention to him, don't do the things "his boys" do, and so on. So finally I asked him, "well with all of these problems I seem to be having, do I even make you happy?" His response? "Sometimes". I asked, well can I get a percentage (because I could not believe it and I deal with hurtful things by laughing it off). He gave me percentages (I asked for it right?) I hung up totally feeling like crap on the bottom of his shoe. Worthless and not much of anything.

When he got back home, I confronted him. I told him that what he had been doing to me was abusive and I should have recognized it sooner, but I guess I was denying that this was happening to me. He thought I was being sensitive. That pointing out things that I need to work on is not criticizing. It's reminding me to "straighten up my act" so to speak. Well, I asked for a separation, because I did not feel good about myself or our marriage. I asked for counseling for himself as individuals and us together. I wanted promises that this would not happen again. He said he could not promise me that and he was not cool on doing therapy on his own. So I told him I would leave the house and go home to my family for a while.

I could not be intimate with him, because he associates intimacy with everything being okay with us. But also, because I was still to hurt by his words to connect to him on that level. We continued to live in the same house and talk, but he kept pushing me to make a decision about us. Although I was trying to get through this hurt that he'd caused me, he was doing nothing but wanting to know if we were going to make up soon or was I going to ask for a divorce. I told him I just wanted a separation, I didn't want to make a decision like that.

Well, over the holiday, actually before then, I found out he had been seeing another woman. He began staying out late on the weekend, coming home the next morning, and having intimate conversations. I found his cell phone bill and called the woman. She said he told her that we were getting a divorce. When I confronted him, he denied they were seeing each other and that they were just friends. Well, he didn't' know I talked to her already and I knew he'd been sleeping with her for over a month. It hurt me very deeply that he had done this to me. I told him that it was over and I was leaving for good.

Well, not less than 24hrs later, while I'm packing up the house, he's now asking me to not leave or divorce him. That he doesn't want to lose me, that he can't see his life without me. He was sorry for the hurt he caused. I can see he is sorry and regretful, but is he serious Chuck and Garland? That he was trying to fill a void because I wasn't touching him or being intimate with him. This is over the space of a month and a half before he actually slept with another woman. Another month and a half that he'd continued sleeping with her until I found out.

I had to ask him, if he was me what would he do? He said, he would try to work things out because we have time and had been through allot together. I'm scared! I am seriously hurt and frightened being in this relationship. How am I supposed to be in this relationship feeling like this? What is wrong with him?

Bewildered on the West Coast

GARLAND: Thanks for your question!

Please keep in mind that Chuck and I are not trained professionals when it comes to this kind of stuff. So, please think about what we say, but don't base a life changing decision TOO HEAVILY on our advice.

You said you were going to try and give both sides of your situation, yours and your husbands, but that is rather impossible since you really don't know the REAL cause of his actions. I doubt if what he tells you his causes are anything close to whats truly going on inside his head and heart.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in the fact that just because two people get married that doesn't mean they were meant to get married nor that they have to stay married! If your husband is killing your self esteem and treating you like a child [because he sounds like an angry father scolding his child about cleaning the car, and the house, and the kids] then maybe you and he aren't meant to be together. Frankly, you are putting up with a hell of a lot of nonsense, and this cheating mess really raises my eyebrows. With HIV and AIDS quietly running rampant across the country, cheating is more than an emotional or fidelity issue, it is major health and life risk! Whatever you do, you should make any long term decision on your marriage contingent upon him taking an HIV test and allowing you to read his unopened results FIRST! He may be killing you in more than just an emotional way.

Can he change? Can he really want to turn things around? Yeah, sure. Maybe. Technically anything can be possible. He could turn around and become a stellar husband, then again he could flip the script and show you a darker side of him that you never even dreamed of.

Through all of this, no matter what your choice is, you have to make sure you don't become "A Mission Woman." A Mission Woman is the woman that latches herself to an unworthy man and finds it her Mission in life to take his abuse and take his cheating and take his beatings and take his shortcomings and take his insecurities all in an effort to make him a better man; all in an effort to let her suffering be the price to pay for chance that some loser could become a winner. If your man is ain't worthy, then your choices are fairly clear.



CHUCK: Wow. Just wow. I got a mental picture just now. It's like this man's mission in life was to destroy your self-esteeem, and I just pictured him on the deck of some aircraft carrier, with a big banner flying behind him saying: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Some questions are hard to answer. For this question, the hardest thing for me will be containing my outrage about this man.

Garland is on point with his answer, except in one respect. If you were a "Mission Woman," hopefully by now you would have seen that there is no redemption for this creep, he has taken no opportunity to improve himself, and would have aborted that mission by now.

Where do I begin? Let me try here: The phone conversation you had with him, when he decided to open up about his unhappiness with YOU, should have been your cue to vent your unhappiness with him. Rather than hanging up feeling beat-down and drained, you should have told him how you felt then. You couldn't have asked for a better time.

But I guess it doesn't matter when you wake up. The important thing is that you did. Ultimately, The best statement of his feelings for your marriage was not his obligatory pleas that you give him another chance. It was that he sought out another woman for sex after A MONTH AND A HALF of separation. That's what's called adding insult to injury.

Is he serious about wanting to get back together with you? Sure. But don't think it's for selfless reasons. Your husband has not demonstrated himself to be very altruistic person. He seems concerned with his own needs above all else. So he may have realized that it won't be as easy to find someone as willing to take his crap as you have been over the years. He may know that having been caught cheating is not the best way to go into a divorce. Either way, Bewildered, life is too damn short to spend any more time with this bad person than the 15 or so years that you already have. Cut him loose. Don't give it a second thought.

the Semi-Married Man

QUESTION: I am so glad to have found your blog!!! I have been wanting to ask this question of a neutral party . . .

I have been divorced (after 8 years of a tumultuous marriage) for the past 7 years. I am now 38 years old and have been dating a 49 year old man for the past 5 years.

I knew that this man was married at the inception of the relationship. He is also separated (living in a different state) from his wife. As a matter of fact, they have been separated by a 10-hour drive 3 years before I started dating him. Initially, it didn't matter much because I was not interested in a serious relationship - I did enjoy the companionship.

He did explain that he was staying married for the children. His youngest daughter just graduated from high school this past May. He told me (in July) that he would be divorced in 3 months.

I have not asked any more questions about this since the statement was made, and he has not volunteered any statements.

Just give me your overall impression of this relationship. . .
* Am I silly for holding on? I started REALLY liking him about three years into the relationship.
* Do I wait until the 3 month period is up??
* Should I believe that I am being strung along??
* Have I wasted my time??
* What (most likely) does this man think about our relationship? about me?
* Do I bail out, now??

-Bewildered

CHUCK: Bewildered, Thanks for the question.

I'm going to tell you something you may already know. Some people, despite the fact that their marriage is over, like to maintain their separated status, largely because it keeps potential suitors at arm's length. "I'd love to commit to you, sweetheart," they say, "But I'm still married. Someday... I'm gonna straighten this out." Suuure.

I gather you are looking for a more stable, committed relationship with your boyfriend, but you seem wary of being played. And I also gather that he has made promises to you that you two will be having that relationship when his divorce is final. Do you believe him? That's a key question here. Just because something sounds like an excuse doesn't mean that it is.

He wants you to wait three more months after being with him for five years. I don't know. I think you should call his bluff. It's just three months. Unless you already suspect that he's a liar, and you want to spare yourself the pain and embarrassment you suspect is coming.

What I find a little hard to believe is his assertion that he's stayed married all these years "for the children." If he's stayed in a different state from his wife for an appreciable amount of years, I'd hardly call that staying together. But people define things different ways, I suppose.

If it's any consolation, him being with you for five years means , at least, he doesn't consider you a jump-off. But as to whether he wants to make any further commitments to you remains to be seen. If you give him the three months, get back to us and let us know what's happened.

GARLAND: Hello Bewildered!

Are you silly for holding on? No, not at all - as long you are realistic in what you want and are [or are not] getting out of this relationship. If all you wanted was companionship, someone to spend time with, someone to hang out with - then no, holding on met your needs.

Should you wait for the 3 months to be up? I assume, since you've been with him for five years, three more months shouldn't be a big issue. But what do you REALLY expect to happen after the three months is up? Are you expecting a ring? Honestly, that has about a 1 in 1000 chance of happening. From what you gave us in your question, your friend doesn't sound like someone who truly places a high value on the institution of marriage, at least not the same way most people think of it. I think, with this fellow, you've signed on to be the girlfriend indefinitely.

Are you being strung along? If you expect this guy to propose, marry and stay with you, then I think you MAY be being strung along. Please note that I said "MAY" and "MARRY" and "STAY" in that first sentence. Now, I could certainly be wrong but then, when it comes to him, it would be nothing for him to propose to you and then drag out the wedding for years and years. My gut feeling is that this guy isn't pressed about the role of husband and once he's done with it, he's done with it for good.

The whole "staying together for the kids" has me scratching my head - most people do that for very young children and they tend to stay under the same roof - not 500 miles away and not for high school aged kids. He hasn't divorced his wife for OTHER reasons - whether they involve you or her I don't know, but if he WANTED to marry you - I think he would have settled the divorce years ago, especially considering the ages of his kids. No teenaged kid is saying, "Yeah, my Dad who lives four states away is happily married to my Mom! Things are great!" These kids KNOW Mom and Dad are NOT happily married - this excuse fails the sniff test with me.

Have you wasted your time? If you're looking for a second husband - probably. If you are just looking for someone to spend your time with - absolutely not!

What does he think about you and your relationship? He's dating a woman over ten years younger than he is - he's probably happier than a bag of smiley faces! Aside from that, I don't know. You were willing to spend time with him even though he told you he was married - so I'm sure that puts you on his good side. And, after five years you haven't pressured him to divorce his wife, so HE is probably not unhappy about that either.

Should you bail out now? I'll leave that one to you. You know that one.

Thank you for your question and thanks for asking for our two cents. Chuck and I certainly hope that hearing a second [and third] opinion will give you the insight you need.

Child Support (Mild Support)

QUESTION: Why does my ex-boyfriend, my baby's father, lie when I ask him why hasn't he paid child support. His response is "It is being taken out of my check." However, I am not receiving any child support and he doesn't seem concerned it if is being taken out and I'm not receiving it.

GARLAND: Thanks for being our first question! I guess above all, be glad that this guy is your "ex." Any man that doesn't seem to be concerned about his kid's welfare is most likely a SCRUB, so you're better off without him. Some guys get all caught up worrying that the child's mother is spending part his support money on herself. So, to be on the safe side, he just doesn't give her anything. But, if in fact money is coming out of his check and he doesn't care where it goes - that makes him STUPID and PATHETIC. This type of guy doesn't have a clue as to what it takes to be a parent, a man, or a decent human being for that much. Walk the other way when you see him!!! (Maybe even - RUN the other way!)

Don't bother chasing after him on the phone or at his job or at his place - it will only bring out the worst in this dead-beat. If he doesn't care about money out of his check, and he doesn't care about his kid - then you mean less than nothing to him as well. Seeing you face-to-face, trying to explain how wrong he is for not caring and not doing anything will most likely convince him that YOU truly need his money for that big shoe sale next week. Looking into the eyes of the mother of the child he neglects, it's very unlikely that he'll see you buying diapers, and cereal, and Batman pajama's - instead he'll see that he's a bum and loser. He'll get mad, fuss, cuss and run away.

But, there could be one more thing going on here. This guy could have another kid out there. Your child support might be leaving his check, but it might be ending up in another woman's bank account. Either way, he'd probably still care less. You might want to look into this though.

Basically - Just get LEGAL - You need to stop by your local courthouse with your child support order in hand and let them know that you're not receiving the money your child is due! That would be your best move. That - and not stressing over a dead-beat.

CHUCK: Thanks from me too for providing us our first question. I don't possess any personal experience in this area (child support), but I'll take a run at it. First of all, I think I should acquaint you with a principle that arises frequently when couples separate: NOT MY PROBLEM. As in, "I'm moving out of our apartment with three months left on the lease and your name's the only one on it? NOT MY PROBLEM." "Some of your DVDs went missing when you moved out, including your copies of Scarface and Friday? NOT MY PROBLEM." "You didn't get your child support this month? NOT MY PROBLEM."

Parties in former couples take opportunities to score points against their exes by acting aloof and callous all the time. We all tell ourselves when we break up that we're going to act maturely towards the other person. Some of us even mean it. Some, like your ex apparently, don't even try.

I find it amazing that he is so nonchalant about his money not reaching you and his child. I mean, for all he knows, it could be going in the pocket of some corrupt court clerk. If just for selfish reasons, he should want to make sure that his hard-earned money is going where it's supposed to. Assuming he doesn't already know what's up.

Garland's right on in suggesting that you don't want to approach him directly about the child support, at least for now. You've seen the response you've gotten. Your best bet is pursuing your money through the court system, where you'll at least get a fair hearing. He may give you some crap about "going to da White Man on him," but you know what? Don't even dignify it.

But neither one of us has really answered your actual question here, why your ex-boyfriend lies about his non-payment of child support. My answer's simple: He's a dick. Sorry.