Why can't weeeeee be friends?

Dear Chuck and Garland,

I am a young woman, 24 years old. I was involved with a guy of the same age for three years during university. He was my first boyfriend and only, as I am still to re-enter the dating world. We were both foreign students from the same country who met at university and had (what I thought) was a great relationship which most people, including me thought would end in a marriage. We had lived together for a year and became really close to each other's family etc. I will give him credit where it's due, he treated me well, in that he supported me emotionally and financially through some rough patches in my life. I never had to ask twice for something from him and I do believed that he cared for me, even if he may not have loved me as I loved him.

We broke up because I graduated one semester before him and returned to our home country. We spoke about what would happen when I moved and we decided that we would be in a long distance relationship until he returned as well. About a month after I left, I found out that he was cheating on me with a mutual friend. Of course, I went crazy and confronted him. He could not deny it and told me he was unsure about us and he was in love with this other woman. Upon my questioning his intentions all along, as he was the one who always brought up marriage etc when we were dating, he said he was in love with me, cared for me and knew that I was a good woman who would make a good wife and he thought he wanted me. Emphasis on thought-- until he starting seeing the other woman. So the relationship ended-- with much agony for me as I was shocked and very hurt.

I should also mention that he cheated on me earlier, very early in the relationship... something which was a very early warning sign that he had a fidelity problem. But he indicated that I refused (which is true) to be intimate with him and he had his needs met eslewhere. The relationship was also long distance when this happened. By the time I had found about about that early problem, the cheating had stopped ( by his choice) and he was really trying to make it work for us. That is why I forgave him and took him back.

The second time though, I just walked away.

When he graduated, not so long ago, he moved back to our home country and started up a business and decided to settle here as well. We talk sometimes as friends, and have met on a few ocassions and had lunch and dinner etc. He indicates to me that he wants to be friends with me because we do get along well, once we avoid the issues of the past relationship. I don't mind friendship as I think I can handle that we 'were' . But he hints to me that he wants more, he keeps saying, I was the best thing to happen to him, he made mistakes etc. I don't know if pursuing a friendship with him will lead him to think that he has a chance to get close to me again. I see it for what it is, friendship but I am aware that he may using friendship to squeeze his way back in. What do you guys think? Can people be friends after dating? What do you think his intentions are?

GARLAND: Thanks for your question and sorry for the delay in getting this answer posted.

Let's see... yes, men and woman can sometimes be friends after dating and after breaking up. But in my opinion, those times are far and few in between. If your ex has cheated on you twice, then you have a very reasonable barometer to his trends and habits. Frankly, I think this guy will continue to keep you in his pockets just like so many loose nickels. He doesn't really want you, but he wants to keep you close enough to keep an eye on or maybe to keep someone else from taking your attention.

I think a better man would say, "I've hurt this woman twice and she's forgiven me. I'm going to leave her alone and let her heal." A decent guy would not be trying to satisfy his own... guilty conscience... or underhanded plan.

And then we come to the whole "being friends" thing. Calling this chap a 'friend' is an insult to the REAL friends you've had for years. The REAL 'friends' that were there for you when this guy dogged you. The REAL 'friends' that care about you and your feelings and not just their own. This guy may be nice, but don't try to paint him with the 'friend' brush. You two will probably never be TRUE friends. If your 'radar' is active and you have some doubts and/or concerns about him and his objective, then please trust yourself. I think you're going to open yourself up to some serious vulnerability.

Good luck and best wishes.

CHUCK: I'll be succinct: People who have dated can remain friends after dating, depending on the behavior that you are willing to tolerate from your friends. If you place a value on friends that you can trust, and that are loyal to you, this man has already shown that he is unworthy to be your friend by cheating on you (twice) while you were dating.

Now, people can change, and, in certain circumstances, should be given second chances. But that should not mean that we should allow the past to be forgoten completely. Those who forget the past are doomed to blahblahblah and all that.

Is he trying to use friendship to squeeze his way back in? Absolutely. He's not even trying to hide it. He realizes that he fouled up, but you will not take him back straight off, so he believes if he plays the friend role for a while, he might be able to soften you up to get back together. Now you can be his friend if you want, but be mindful of what he's setting up. And most importantly, DON'T DO IT.

This guy has shown that the minute that there is any appreciable distance between you, that he will cuddle up with the next nearest female. He's done it twice. That you know about. If he's bad friend material, he's even worse boyfriend material. I say, let it all pass. You can do better.

Oddly Positive

Hello Gentlemen, Your honesty is quite refreshing and I'm hoping that you can give me some insight on a "situation".

QUESTION: My friendship with a guy has evolved from classmates to something deeper. During the last year we've been able to visit each other and talk on intimate details - family, goals, past relationships, etc. When we were out with mutual friends a little while back he shared that he loved me and kept repeating it. I took it at face value and thank'd him. Slightly intoxicated, I didn't reciprocate it. Since that day he has sought to learn everything there is to know about me and uses the term best friend. We talk very often, 3-5 times a week, which is quite high in comparison to my other male friends. The conversations are always mutually initiated - I truly consider him to be a kindred spirit and a stand up guy.

My concern or question is whether or not his actions are saying he's interested in being more than friends? At one time he asked if I every thought about "us" and I dodged the question. Why? I didn't want my single, in heat hormones to take all of his good traits and create a potential new man to pursue. I adore his friendship and don't want to loose that - what are your thoughts?

GARLAND: Sounds oddly positive to me.

I think Chuck and I see so many bad scenarios on our blog, that a real positive situation is amazingly refreshing!

Okay, maybe your buddy was a little buzzed when he repeatedly proclaimed his love for you. But this may have very well be a case of a "drunk tongue speaking a sober mind." Meaning while his mental guard was down he spoke the truth.

I like the fact that you BOTH call each other, and not just you - you - you - you calling all the time. The fact that he calls you his Best Friend and seems to want to know more and more about you seems... well... great.

My only advice to you is, go slowly, there's no need to run and trip yourself up. But I think you should talk to him - preferrably face-to-face, alone - NONE of your friends around, and in a pretty relaxed place. Personally, I'm a sucker for a good park-bench chat. Just feel him out; tell him that you've taken note of the things he's been saying and ask him to just let you know what is what. Are you just a great pal to him, or is he looking for a deeper connection to you?

Good luck to you! Please drop us a line and let us know how things work out!

CHUCK: Oddly positive, indeed. Sometimes, we can be so cautious and jaded about relationships that we can't take yes for an answer. Because that appears to be what you've got here. You're right to be a little suspicious about your friend's original (drunken) admission of his affection for you. But I've got a saying for that set of circumstances, just like Garland does: In Vino Veritas. Literally, "In Wine, Comes Truth." So take that, Mel Gibson. He may have been harboring these feelings for years, and needed the booze to get the courage to speak them.

Another reason to feel encouraged is, since that first incident, he hasn't backed off. A lot of guys, especially when faced with the less-than-enthusiastic response that you gave him, would avoid you out of embarassment. But he has been contacting you on a regular basis, continuing to let you know his feelings are genuine.

What's wrong with this picture? I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say, "Not a damn thing." You may find yourself reluctant to start a relationship with a friend, because you mayloseafriendandblahblahblah. SCREW THAT NOISE. Take a chance. I said the same thing with women I knew years ago, taking the so-called high road. But you know what? Most of them, I'm not even friends with anymore, anyway.

I've probably said this before, but I was friends with my wife for two years before we dated. And because we already knew each other, a lot of the time you spend feeling each other out in a relationship was cut down. Give yourselves a chance and think positively. Garland and I are pulling for you.

Awfully Wedded Husband

QUESTION: I need to know what to do or to figure out if I need my head examined.

There's a lot to my story but I'm going to squeeze it all together for you. I have a girlfriend, I'll call her Jill. Last year Jill introduced me to this guy named Deke. The first night I met him he sat in the club with us with his hat and sunglasses on, drunk. He was very unimpressive. I knew that Jill had a couple of guys on the side, so I didn't think much of him.

But she seemed to keep him around for awhile. He stayed drunk and treated her shitty for the most part, but she would not leave him. He actually punched her in the mouth one time busting her lip and drawing blood. She thought about leaving him, but days later he was right back in her home and in her arms and she was acting like nothing happened. On a few ocassions, I tried to encourage her to really ask herself if she wanted a man who stayed drunk, hardly worked and didn't mind hitting her. She stuck with him. A few weeks ago she showed up at a gathering of our friends wearing an engagment ring! Deke popped the question and dumb-dumb, I mean, Jill said yes. Our girlfriends have been falling all over her and the ring and Deke since he popped the question. I tried to ask a few of our friends if they thought Deke was good for Jill. But they seem to be just as giddy and stupid as she is is. A few of them have even hinted that I might be jealous because Jill has a man (???) and I don't. That's not my issue at all. I'd rather be alone than with a man that hits me and treats me bad.

But it gets worse. Now, my girlfriends and I have been invited to Jill and Deke's wedding which is taking place in the Bahamas. They have some kind of deal where if they can sell out 10 rooms for 3 days, then their wedding and reception are free. So basically, I'd be covering 10% of their wedding expense. I don't want to go! Am I crazy? Is Jill crazy? Am I a bad friend? Tell me what you guys are thinking!!!!!


GARLAND: Uh, you-crazy-NO, Jill-crazy-PROBABLY, bad friend-NO.

Are you crazy for NOT wanting to go to a wedding that you don't believe in? Not at all. Personally, I think this is a type of integrity that many people are reluctant to show. I think that going to a wedding where you honestly don't feel like the two people should be married is wrong. I'd like to call it criminal, but that might not be the right word for this moment. When two people are making promises of love and enternal devotion to each other, they are doing it in front of God, their families and their friends. And in turn, everyone there is given a chance to stop the show if they know of any reason these two should not be wed... I am yet to attend a wedding where someone actually did this, but I've been to some where time has proven that someone should have spoken up.

You may find yourself, in a bad spot when this point comes up. I mean, we all want our friends to be happy, and we all want what is BEST for our friends [at least we should] and you know or have strong feelings that this Deke guy, is NOT the best for your friend. I say don't go! Because if you go, and you still don't trust this guy with Jill's heart - then your attendance will be "signing off" on something that you believe is bad or wrong. And I'm not even taking into account the whole "paying for 10%" of this event. That's a whole other issue...

Thanks for your question, and good luck on you decision.

CHUCK: I agree with Garland completely that if you do not agree with this union, you should not support it, let alone subsidize it. But you also need to realize that you may be costing yourself a friend. Because if you tell her you will not be attending, she's going to ask you why. If you tell her, she'll get mad at you. If you don't tell her, she'll get mad at you. In no way I'm suggesting that you should participate in what you obviously view as a farce, but just be prepared for the reaction.

Unfortunately, that is all you can do. Nobody wants to see their friend married to a drunken, abusive bum. But she may feel that she can (sigh) change him. He probably told her that he'll be different after they're married. But seriously, if anyone out there ever knows of a situation where a guy like this has changed for the better (without a jail sentence being involved), let me know. Drop us a comment. Call me cynical, but I don't see this happening too often. Or ever.

One last bit of advice: On some day in the future, a couple of years after they get married, when they've had a kid and Deke's true colors REALLY show themselves, and she's moaning to you how she never should have married him, etc., etc., resist the urge to say "I told you so." It's always better to take the high road.